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Nena Camadera

Scarred Survivors

1,330 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Imaginos1892 said:

Nah. I bet demons interfere with each other's contracts all the time, and that Niflheim's policy is 'If you're too weak to defend your contract, tough shit'. Urd is half demon. Usually she finds that embarrassing, but sometimes it can be useful. She can do things a Goddess can't.

New theories came up during leg day (my oxygen deprived brain had some strange visions during squats -_-)...

 

While it would make some sense that demons could think like that, it's not the idea i got from the manga. They've mentioned demons take contracts very seriously, which kinda doesn't point me in the direction of your theory.

 

Urd can get the best of two worlds, yes, but she can get the worse from both worlds as well.

 

And never mind if it's a demon or a god messing with a contract, me thinks there would be severe consequences regardless of who it was. 

Now that i think about this, there would be a lot to go with this, plot wise. Urd kills/seals/beats-the-living-hell-out-whoever-is-responsible-for-Aiko's-contract/insert-another-mean-thing-here. There. Aiko's problem's solved.

Now enter the demons to find meanie Urd who did a big nono and interfered with what she wasn't supposed to.

Heaven would not back her up, since for all intended and purposes she's banished from there and they don't hear or see her face in the next 3000 years. Urd accepts the kind invitation to go to Chugach (doesn't want to put Keiichi and Aiko in unecessary danger = demons on her back and they could be  collateral dmg) ), which is pretty much a "neutral" territory, if you like, where no demons would want to invade in search for her because they would be afraid of consequences (too close to the border....high chance of trouble with the gods ). Idi would have his Mara x Lind dream come true (Mara being on orders to hunt Urd down, while Lind would be protecting her turd - and Urd - from her "hunters".

 

Another theory that came up my mind is the coincidence of all the demonic contracts / heavenly wishes around that family.

What IF (Kaz, here's an entry for your project), the demons targeted Aiko as Stewie's payment exactly because of Keiichi?

I mean, what if there is NO coincidence? What if their plan was to make Keiichi fail, since the very beginning? To enter a downwards spiral of hate and anger and no longer be a candidate for a heaven wish? And when they saw that their plan had failed, that Keiichi, despite the tragedy that happened to his family, still managed to grab a wish from Heaven, resorted to hacking Yggdrasil and converting it to a demonic contract/butched heavenly wish instead?

 

Question that would arise from this would be: what were the demons trying to prevent?

Since they couldn't "destroy" Keiichi, they opted to "destroy" Belldandy instead. But what would be the result of the original heavenly wish between original, unscarred Bell x Keiichi be, that the demons would be so adamant to prevent?

 

 

Another question. We know that to be a candidate for a Heaven wish, one has to have a lot of qualities. But what are the requirements to land a demonic contract with someone?

Would one have to have a "dark soul" in comparison? Or just be a "weak mind person"? Or would just a person in despair do?

 

I know this is a long-shot, but what if Stewie-the-perv is not the perv we think him to be? For example, what IF he was just a desperated man, unemployed, with debts to pay and a sick child at home and a wife with cancer (jeez...)

What if he accepted the demon's contract in order to, let's say, have enough money so that his family could have a decent life and that his wife would get miraculously cured from cancer? So that his kid could get treatment? So that his child would get a house to grown in? A mother to grown up with?

So many tasty questions would arise from that...all the morals questions of "was it justified?" "was it right?" Would that make stewie less guilty in anyone's eye? Would YOU do it if you had the chance?

 

Tasssttyyyyyy.....omomomoomoomomom

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Yabbut everything you're saying implies an 'if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin' attitude.

I'm getting a picture of Niflheim as a demon-eat-demon realm where power is 90% of the law and the First Commandment is Don't Get Caught. Sure, demons take their own contracts seriously, but do they really respect other demons' contracts? Or, if your contract gets interfered with or you royally piss off somebody with the power to wreck your shit, is it just 'too bad, so sad, sucks to be you'?

6 hours ago, Urd said:

Another theory that came up my mind is the coincidence of all the demonic contracts / heavenly wishes around that family.

What IF (Kaz, here's an entry for your project), the demons targeted Aiko as Stewie's payment exactly because of Keiichi?

I mean, what if there is NO coincidence? What if their plan was to make Keiichi fail, since the very beginning? To enter a downwards spiral of hate and anger and no longer be a candidate for a heaven wish? And when they saw that their plan had failed, that Keiichi, despite the tragedy that happened to his family, still managed to grab a wish from Heaven, resorted to hacking Yggdrasil and converting it to a demonic contract/butchered heavenly wish instead?

Yup, that's a very good question. How deep is the hole, how far back does it go? Nena says don't assume everything is demonic interference, but by the same logic, don't assume it ain't.

6 hours ago, Urd said:

I know this is a long-shot, but what if Stewie-the-perv is not the perv we think him to be? For example, what IF he was just a desperated man, unemployed, with debts to pay and a sick child at home and a wife with cancer (jeez...)

What if he accepted the demon's contract in order to, let's say, have enough money so that his family could have a decent life and that his wife would get miraculously cured from cancer? So that his kid could get treatment? So that his child would get a house to grown in? A mother to grown up with?

Stewie-the-perv was creeping Megumi out for years before raping Aiko. According to the timeline, Keiichi qualified for a wish 14 years ago, when Megumi was 15, the year before she kicked an entire dojo's asses. I think she'd have to have been a little younger to get creeped out by one guy. Would the demons have wasted their time making a contract before Keiichi qualified for his Wish?

6 hours ago, Urd said:

So many tasty questions would arise from that...all the morals questions of "was it justified?" "was it right?" Would that make stewie less guilty in anyone's eye? Would YOU do it if you had the chance?

No questions at all. Rape is evil. Raping a 9-year-old girl is evil squared. Betraying her and her family's trust raises it to about the fourth power. Nothing justifies or excuses Stewie-the-perv.

———————————

G'Kar: “I have looked into the darkness, Na'Toth. You can not do that and ever be quite the same again.”

Edited by Imaginos1892
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11 hours ago, Imaginos1892 said:

Yabbut everything you're saying implies an 'if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin' attitude.

I confess i didn't understand this part.

11 hours ago, Imaginos1892 said:

 

I'm getting a picture of Niflheim as a demon-eat-demon realm where power is 90% of the law and the First Commandment is Don't Get Caught. Sure, demons take their own contracts seriously, but do they really respect other demons' contracts? Or, if your contract gets interfered with or you royally piss off somebody with the power to wreck your shit, is it just 'too bad, so sad, sucks to be you'?

 

I do understand this part, and it would make sense, from a ruthless big-bad-demon POV. I just don't think it works like that 'cause (again, this is just my interpretation of things) they would be kinda helping the gods if they do that. Instead of picking their own targets, forming their own contracts, more powerful demons would prey on lesser demons contracts? Doesn't make much sense from a "company" POV, where the goal is to have as many demonic shares as possible.

 

11 hours ago, Imaginos1892 said:

 

Stewie-the-perv was creeping Megumi out for years before raping Aiko. According to the timeline, Keiichi qualified for a wish 14 years ago, when Megumi was 15, the year before she kicked an entire dojo's asses. I think she'd have to have been a little younger to get creeped out by one guy. Would the demons have wasted their time making a contract before Keiichi qualified for his Wish?

No questions at all. Rape is evil. Raping a 9-year-old girl is evil squared. Betraying her and her family's trust raises it to about the fourth power. Nothing justifies or excuses Stewie-the-perv.

 

This one you understood wrong. I didn't mean to imply that maybe Stewie-the-perv in SS is "just an innocent victim of big bad schemy demons". Nonnonono. Nena and Idi left it pretty clear the guy was a predator. All the classic signs were present in the description Aiko gave us. From being a "family friend " (i remember reading somewhere that most rapists are somewhat "friends" with the victims), from being overly nice to them, to Megumi warnings, to...everything!

 

I was talking in a theoritic POV. A theory inside a theory, if you want. And merely for academic purposes, while i do agree that rape is evil. period. (so is murdering, theiving, etc) in that situation i've mentioned, none of us can really comment 'cause none of us have been in some kind of situation before.

 

Taking gods and demons aside, if someone pulled a gun over your head and said: "murder this guy/rape this girl/insert-very-bad-thing-here" or your whole family dies,i bet you would at least reconsider your morals. It's one of the oldest dilemmas in the books, that people still face TODAY in the various war theaters around the world. 

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3 hours ago, Urd said:

I do understand this part, and it would make sense, from a ruthless big-bad-demon POV. I just don't think it works like that 'cause (again, this is just my interpretation of things) they would be kinda helping the gods if they do that. Instead of picking their own targets, forming their own contracts, more powerful demons would prey on lesser demons contracts? Doesn't make much sense from a "company" POV, where the goal is to have as many demonic shares as possible.

I’m not saying the demons would go out of their way to prey on each other, but there would have to be conflicts. They’re demons. They’re gonna have disagreements. Serious disagreements, about all sorts of things. Are they supposed to lawyer up and plead their grievances before some sort of Evil Court Of Appeals? Because that doesn’t sound very demonic. Except for the lawyer part. Or, are they expected to settle it themselves? In which case, power is 90% of the law and Getting Caught is a cardinal sin.

Urd would know the answer.

So if Urd says 'these mortals are under my protection, fuck with them and I'll make you wish you could die' it would be just demonic business-as-usual.

———————————

"We're rich because we’re well-educated, not because we’re werewolves."

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OOH OOOH! LORE TIME, LORE TIME!!!!

 

Contracts are administered by Nidhogg.  While demons can and will at times prey on eachother, there are specific rules in place to prevent demons from interfering with eachother's contracts do to the fact that it can hurt Nidhogg, and thus, all of Niflheim.  These rules are specially enforced by a secular police force unit to ensure that Niflheim can benefit from as many contracts as possible, and there are additional rules laid down for when/how to act if on contract interferes with anther, whether it was deliberate or not.  Hild is very strict on these policies because she understands how important these contracts are to the realm she rules, and has little tolerance for anyone who screws up, and the police unit who enforces those specific rules takes great pleasure in what they do.

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1 hour ago, Nena Camadera said:

OOH OOOH! LORE TIME, LORE TIME!!!!

 

Contracts are administered by Nidhogg.  While demons can and will at times prey on eachother, there are specific rules in place to prevent demons from interfering with eachother's contracts do to the fact that it can hurt Nidhogg, and thus, all of Niflheim.  These rules are specially enforced by a secular police force unit to ensure that Niflheim can benefit from as many contracts as possible, and there are additional rules laid down for when/how to act if on contract interferes with anther, whether it was deliberate or not.  Hild is very strict on these policies because she understands how important these contracts are to the realm she rules, and has little tolerance for anyone who screws up, and the police unit who enforces those specific rules takes great pleasure in what they do.

 

 

Look, it's Nena!

 

Ruuun!

 

Take cover!

 

How dare these pesky authors meddle in our academic discussion about the fic they've created? tssk tsskk

 

XD

 

Now now, we wouldn't be seeing one of those sadistic demonic demon police units anytime in SS, would we Miss Nena?

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I.... honestly can't say, right now. Not so much do to spoilers as just uncertainty in how the flow of the story will work out.  It's possible, but right now it's kind of up in the air on how/when/if they appear.

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2 minutes ago, Nena Camadera said:

I.... honestly can't say, right now. Not so much do to spoilers as just uncertainty in how the flow of the story will work out.  It's possible, but right now it's kind of up in the air on how/when/if they appear.

 

I must admit i'm kinda torn being admiration, confusion and something in between to the fact that you create concepts in your story that you're not even sure you're gonna use XD

 

Talk about covering all the bases...ya know..just to be sure.

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It's all about that world building! Can't have realistic characters in positions of power if you don't know how all the pieces below them come together!

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Just now, Nena Camadera said:

It's all about that world building! Can't have realistic characters in positions of power if you don't know how all the pieces below them come together!

Fine.

 

Lore question then...even if it's not completely related to SS themes.

 

In your world building thingy-bobby, what kind of "governments" do Asgard and Niflheim have?

A monarchy? A dictatorship? A democracy? Something else?

How is the "next in line" choosen, in each side of the fence?

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1 minute ago, Urd said:

In your world building thingy-bobby, what kind of "governments" do Asgard and Niflheim have?

A monarchy? A dictatorship? A democracy? Something else?

How is the "next in line" choosen, in each side of the fence?

Isn't it obvious? Heaven is a monarchy, and Niflheim is a demon-ocracy!

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1 minute ago, Imaginos1892 said:

Isn't it obvious? Heaven is a monarchy, and Niflheim is a demon-ocracy!

lolz XD

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