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Nena Camadera

Scarred Survivors

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Imaginos1892
Quote

“Keiichi,” she whispered, her eyes haunted and aged. “I can’t sense my magic anymore.”

Annnnd, it looks like we're seeing those 'lasting, unpleasant effects' she warned herself about in Chapter 51:

Quote

You will regret this action. A voice comes from deep within her mind. Not Holy Bell but her own voice, her subconscious, warning her of the upcoming consequences. This will have lasting, unpleasant effects.

It's temporary. It HAS to be temporary! Her magic is part of her ten-dimensional existence. If it's completely gone, she'll progressively break down until she dies.

Maybe her magic is being completely consumed in fixing the damage. There's just nothing to spare for anything else right now.
———————————
At my house, the 'things that go bump in the night' are cats.

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IdiAmeanDada
23 hours ago, Xindran said:

It doesn't look like there's any point in the dark realms having a treaty with heaven if this is how "resources" (read: designated target species) are going to be treated. Is this really how Lord Tyr intends to deal with competition? Of course, the answer is no. This isn't his style. Whether Deb lives or dies, whether she manages to convey the words that were spoken to her as it was going down or not, somehow, I just don't think that Dreamweavers are supposed to kill anyone. Isn't that why they aren't targeted openly by any side? This is clearly an introduction to some new players.

So the question now is: Who are "they"? Is this a group of gods that live outside of the influence of the unified heavens, or are they insiders? Is the group purely made of deities, who are for this story's world, responsible for human atrocities like the inquisition and witch trials? Or worse yet, are they a celestial branch of Legion - reminiscent of Davner's 'Balancers', who were also made up of beings from both sides of the fence?

Tyr is in no way shape or form involved here.  The Dreamweavers may be a third party, but their is nothing nefarious about them as in your examples.  They are simply there to go after people who have too much contact with gods or demons without a contract/wish.  If you recall, Keiichi was also targeted by a Dreamweaver.  It's how Bell got her dreamcatcher.  Debra may have been sensitive for all those years, but she was never really in contact with gods/demons until this arc.  To the Dreamweavers, her exposure level got ratcheted up to 10 with her contact with Bell and Urd.  When Urd gave her that potion that blocked her them from seeing her, but only at that exposure level.  Then she goes off and fights not 1 but 3 demons, and inadvertently makes a contract with a forth, her exposure went to like 15 or something like that.  She went from a dim light easily missed in the background to a shining beacon.

Megumi and Takano wont be targeted because they lack the sensitivity that Debra had.  Keima instinctively knew to distance himself at least from Urd, and his interaction with Bell went nothing past casual conversation, so he is also safe.  

20 hours ago, Imaginos1892 said:

Annnnd, it looks like we're seeing those 'lasting, unpleasant effects' she warned herself about in Chapter 51:

Maybe, or after cleansing the radiation from a large area of land, bringing back Keiichi from near death, fighting and beating a demon that personifies the 'irresistible force', and then effectively exorcising a merged puma spirit/god from Aiko by punching her, she's just reached her magical limit.  

20 hours ago, Imaginos1892 said:

It's temporary. It HAS to be temporary! Her magic is part of her ten-dimensional existence. If it's completely gone, she'll progressively break down until she dies.

Maybe her magic is being completely consumed in fixing the damage. There's just nothing to spare for anything else right now.

I think this has been implied, but I will just say it outright here:  The goddess's bodies when on the third plane are real bodies, not shells.  The forms they take are condensed down into something capable of housing their tenth dimensional abilities.  I say this was implied because throughout the series, we have portrayed them as having bodies that can be hurt, bleed, need to eat and sleep, etc., just like the mortals beside them.  If she were to be examined by a doctor, they would be hard pressed to find any difference between her and any other person.  Kind of like the human Cylons from the re-imaged Battlestar Galactica.  

So, when Bell is out of power, she won't pass out and dissolve like in the manga, she just has no power.  The only difference between Bell and Keiichi now is that she is still stronger and hardier than he is, but that's about it.  You still don't want to get into a fight with her unless you have some magic to back you up.  From that standpoint, a First Year at Hogwarts could overpower her right now.  :D

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IdiAmeanDada
2 minutes ago, IdiAmeanDada said:

Maybe, or after cleansing the radiation from a large area of land, bringing back Keiichi from near death, fighting and beating a demon that personifies the 'irresistible force', and then effectively exorcising a merged puma spirit/god from Aiko by punching her, she's just reached her magical limit.

Also, I might add one little snippet here.  The only reason why Mara was able to overpower Bell was because of those first three things I listed.  If she were to face the Wilder bunch + Mara fresh in her unsealed state, she would not have gone down so easily, if at all.  

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Imaginos1892
2 minutes ago, IdiAmeanDada said:

Also, I might add one little snippet here.  The only reason why Mara was able to overpower Bell was because of those first three things I listed.  If she were to face the Wilder bunch + Mara fresh in her unsealed state, she would not have gone down so easily, if at all.  

And, she may have still been groggy from Hagall's hypnotic attack. That doesn't seem to be something you get over in a few seconds, even with Monty Python.

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Urd

From one PoV, i feel like i have nothing to say about this. From another PoV, there's tons of things that comes to my mind that could be blurted out.

 

This chapter was, or at least started out as "damage control" to me. I could see some loose ends being taken care of, some things being explained...and then it all went down the drain. I love dark stories, but the ammount of drama, gore, violence and misfortune going around ever since ch46 is getting tiresome and old to read. 

You guys were not happy enough with what happened to Lind/Urd at the end of 46, but since then we had Keiichi being impaled (and healed by the power or love -_-), Halvar getting deaf, Thrymr getting "sealed", Hagal being mutilated, Aiko getting "consumed" by Rabishu larvae (only to be rescued by a puma spirit/god, whom now she owns her life to), Stewie dying in pain and agony (not that i mind that part), Tyr's only good hand being maimed (sp?), Nebo's angel getting speared, Urd's getting hunted down and bitten like a zebra in the savana and now Bell losing her powers and Deb getting into an accident.

 

The shock doesn't even register anymore. It seems the only way to go is down and down and DOWN everytime. There's no time for the characters to lick their wounds, for the bounds to grow and strenghen before more shit hits the fan. It gets tiresome to read!

This was supposed to be a story about recovery, about healing, but all i see are the characters being torn apart by more shit at every single turn (with the exception of Urd and Lind, who seem to bond everyday more. But i'm betting that connection is going to get ruined and they are going to be paired with some random dude for "reasons".)

 

Fuck me, if i was Keiichi at this point i would ask the wish to be cancelled and make Belldandy's suitcase myself, and throw them ALL out of the door! Ever since the gods came into his life, everybody he holds dear suffered as a result! Him, Aiko, Deb, heck, i'm half expecting to see his parents/someone from Team 12 getting hit at some point in the future, because all Belldandy (and the rest) seem to carry with them are troubles!

 

I'm kinda with Xindran on the Dreamweaver's part. It seemed too ...fishy. Idi says: The Dreamweavers may be a third party, but their is nothing nefarious about them as in your examples.  They are simply there to go after people who have too much contact with gods or demons without a contract/wish.  If you recall, Keiichi was also targeted by a Dreamweaver.

I call bullshit. 

 

Deb didn't have a contract with the demons yet, but it was implied she was due to get one. If they know she's getting one in the near future, why bother "erasing her"? If they are not under anyone's orders, why would they intervene? If she was due to get a godly wish instead, would the results be the same? 

What about Aiko? She had loads of contact with the goddess before, and now is somehow connected to a spirit...is a Dreamweaver going to come and "erase" her too, since she doesn't have a contract/wish?

This move really striked me off as they were acting as "Asgard's hitman", erasing competition before the demons could get to them. This line kinda reforces my point:

 

"This is not how we should be treating those who would help us." 

 

That the orders didn't come from Tyr himself? I can believe that. That they aren't under command from some sort of Asgardian party (even if it's a rogue one, like an Asgardian-Legion?)...i would have my doubts.

 

Moving on.

 

Other thing that is bothering me is the explanation you gave about Belldandy being "out of juice" after, and i quote: 

"after cleansing the radiation from a large area of land, bringing back Keiichi from near death, fighting and beating a demon that personifies the 'irresistible force', and then effectively exorcising a merged puma spirit/god from Aiko by punching her, she's just reached her magical limit.  "

 

It's something that happened in the manga/movie, it's something that is happening here, and it's something that always bothered me. In chapter 49 you mention Belldandy is so freaking powerful and that her reserves were so large that she could, and i quote again:

"that she could erase the existence of the planet she was standing on, as well as the solar system that contained it, with but a mere thought"

 

And then, 3 chapters later, we have Miss Bell going powerless after fighting one demon, clearing a few square km's of radiation, healing one mortal and exorcising a spirit. I compare all of this to erasing the solar system with but a mere thought, and my head goes...RIIIIIGHHHHHTTTT. Hmm hmmm..

 

I was kinda thinking that Bell did a big nono with that dream of hers, that she had violated her sister's domain or something (the past) and that she was going to pay dearly for that transgression. I dunno...something along those lines. But to have unlimited, first class Bell go dry from what happened recently...? That she is tired and worn out? For sure... But powerless?... .... ...............

 

Another thing that kinda bothers me is the inconsistency of Bell's worries. Last chapter she was she worried and guilty over not having answered Skuld's calls, and now look at her! Instead of diving for her phone, going crazy over trying to find it to see if her fears were justified, to see if the dream was real, she just stands there feeling pity for herself/crying over the situation... Now Deb's "fire" showed up, and i bet it's going to be chapters until Bell tatically remembers she didn't check her phone to even see Skuld's messages....

 

I admit i'm sick of Belldandy. I hate her character in SS. She's bland, she's uninteresting, she's too broken and without any real motivation, any real drive, desire, fears and everything that makes a character attractive to me. Her world seems to spin around please Keiichi/be there for Keiichi / and her trauma at the hands of Aoshima. I find myself liking Deb more than i like her! And Deb showed up only at Contra, while Bell has been with us since chapter 1.

 

And I'm guessing the next chapters are going to be focused on what is happening to Deb/Keiichi/Bell, and there will be months of more waiting lying ahead to find out more about the consequences of chapter 46, so i'm kinda throwing the towel at some extend here. Some inconsistencies and some details that seemed sloppy, at best, are also driving me away.

 

At times, it feels like the story wants to flow in a direction, but then its natural course is forced into another direction, just for the sake of..i dunno...for the sake of i" wanting it to be that way". Because i can. I consider a story a living, breathing beast, and it doesn't seem that beast has been free to run freely ever since 46 ended.

 

 

The second half of chapter 49 aside, SS has not been grabbing my attention at all since chapter 46 ended, and i fear this is not going to change anytime soon, so i'm going to give it a break and see if catches my attention again later on.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Urd
grammar

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Xindran

Finally got some time to get back to this discussion...

 

If there are no plans for an uber-massive conspiracy, that's good too. Things are difficult enough on these characters.

 

Maybe I overdid the narration leading into my comment, but my point includes the fact that I don't believe Lord Tyr would be involved in anything like Deb's accident.

More importantly, I'm not buying the idea of that thing is any kind of Dreamweaver at all. 

 

When we were first introduced to the Dreamweavers, their job was just to get in there, cross a few wires, scramble a few marbles and the person in question believes that everything they ever experienced was just a weird-ass dream. Voila! Job's done! No killing... Maybe the "victim" ends up in the loony bin at the worst.

At this point in the story, Keiichi overreacts to the explanation that he was given on the merit that someone's mind is being altered just a little.

 

Now this... thing... shows up, tells Deb that it knows who she is, what she's about and who's side she's actually on. But because she is in line for a favor from Mara, basically that Hell's grace is pending for her, that it must do what it is honor-bound to do - as if it has an iron-clad contract to do so. This thing seems to have some sort of conscience-pangs about what it's doing, but does so anyway. It resembles something that has been involved in another death that Deb has recently had to document in her line of work, but that could be part of how it's working in her head at the moment. If the Aboriginal People have a name for a dangerous spider spirit - this is possibly it, or it could still be a mask.

This is either a hitman that just happens to be a spiderform (for the moment), or a dangerously fringe aberration of it's kind.

Either way, if I were Hild, I might consider putting out a hit on the next individual who is about to receive heaven's grace - regardless of the individual's exposure level - if in fact, Deb actually dies. This is because the balance of shares has been damaged, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Bottom line, this should result in a diplomatic crisis. The best thing that could happen now is if Mara shows up at the last moment with a box full of potions that Urd gave her before she left for heaven. The weirdest thing that could happen is if this has been set up so that the "favor" that Deb is owed becomes a zero-sum game if this is how she is healed. But that would make no sense unless this being that happens to look like a spider is a damned fine actor.

 

..........

 

On another note, I did see the progression of signs that Bell was out of juice, and it was done well enough that I didn't catch it until the punchline. 

Yeah, she wakes up and doesn't feel like conjuring anything. Her body is naturally telling her not to try and she doesn't notice. If I was battered, bruised and sore from some unusual activity I wouldn't even bother to make myself any coffee. I make damned fine coffee. So, no, I didn't catch it there.

Later on she has trouble talking to the animals. I chalked it up to her being about ten years of torture removed from her natural self, and her own variation of what I've lately been calling "Disney Princess Syndrome". So, yeah, no clue there. Again, I didn't catch it.

Then she tried to use magic and... nothing. Then it hits me that even if she was beating down some D, there might be some repercussions for removing her seal, and in every other story, including the original cannon, it's based on rules rather than on physical limitations. Her father knows she slept enough. The only other option I can imagine is if Hagall managed to curse her during the last fight, and if Mara hadn't showed up when she had, the tables would have been turned. Maybe the curse is active, maybe it's passive. Maybe being in proximity to that cut-off ear is activating the curse, and Mara is none the wiser. Whatever.

If she isn't slated for a few centuries of living like a mortal, then something else is jamming her mojo. 

So, I did like how that much was handled... so far

 

..........

 

Um, guys, has Urd ever gone off like that before?

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HotelKatz

Remember, Urd. This Belldandy is still recovering. If there was a way to instantly recover, she'd take it.

While I was thinking about what to post, I remembered the A!MG movie. But I also though of why the memory loss option wouldn't be taken by Belldandy.

Imagine being in Belldandy's shoes. Picking up the phone to grant Keiichi Morisato's wish... only to blink and it's ten years later. Not only that, but Holy Bell looks like she's been through hell. No one is willing to talk. At best, they try to distract, as they know you can see through any lies they try.

And you have no idea why. 

You go searching for answers because Holy Bell is practically a sister.

You discover why those memories were torn away... and regret it instantly. 

 

As for the low magic battery on Bell, I chalk it up to plot convenience. It worked in the manga. Powerful enough to destroy a planet with a smile, but magically changing her clothes a few wipes her out. So I bet the 'cleaning the radiation' took more out of her than the fights did.

 

...Come to think about it, is Belldandy a goddess of destruction trying to be a domestic goddess with a great amount of successes?

Edited by HotelKatz
Put my thoughts in better

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IdiAmeanDada

This seems.... somehow familiar??

 

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Xindran

What are the odds of finding a clip like that right now? I can't stop laughing!

...

...

....

OK. First time through I was cringing a lot while she was playing with the stupid thing in traffic... But it's funny now.

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Imaginos1892

Okay, what's with her lips? Did the spider bite 'em or what? Those things are downright unnatural!

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Xindran
10 hours ago, Imaginos1892 said:

Okay, what's with her lips? Did the spider bite 'em or what?

... not every prince gets turned into a frog. you know?

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Imaginos1892

Sooooo… Dare we hope for Chapter 53 any time soon?

Or, maybe some more Backstory and/or Lore from Nena?

On 1/30/2018 at 8:18 PM, Xindran said:

Um, guys, has Urd ever gone off like that before?

Yes. If you had read through this topic, you would know that. Think of it not as a chore, but an adventure!
———————————
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here — this is the War Room!

Edited by Imaginos1892

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