Community Message: We're currently in the middle of our donation drive. For those willing to send a donation, we ask that you use the feature in the sidebar to send a donation. For those who send a donation, a donation badge will be featured in your profile next to every message you post. members can dismiss this message by clicking on the 'x' in the upper-right corner. Donations are used for hosting fees, license renewal for the forum software and domain name renewal.

Jump to content
vanagandr

Ah! My Gilded Cage

Recommended Posts

Urd    52
Urd

I really really think the speechs part are too much off. The demon speak too properly, are too polite. No jabs, no sarcasm, no veiled threats, no nothing... only light jokes about clothing and about everybody sleeping around with each other. You portray them as gods with more revealing clothes... -_-

Overcomplicated sentences, always trying to justify everything they do or think...

Urd calling Hagal Hagal-sama, even if on a meeting, is totally OOC. Hagal going out of her way to say "enough" when only 2 comments were made about a cake also seemed out of place...ok, you want to pass on the image that she is not fitting for the job, but this is too much of an "incompetent" seal on her forehead. You portray her as an adult Skuld of some sort...an insecure brat, who happened to be an adult.

 

This is what stops me from enjoying this fic as much as i would want to tbh... 

Sorry for the flames, this has potential, but don't think you're quite using it,

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vanagandr    209
vanagandr
14 hours ago, Keiichi Morisato said:

Thanks for posting. :thumbsup:

You're welcome KM! :laugh:

 

6 hours ago, Urd said:

I really really think the speechs part are too much off. The demon speak too properly, are too polite. No jabs, no sarcasm, no veiled threats, no nothing... only light jokes about clothing and about everybody sleeping around with each other. You portray them as gods with more revealing clothes... -_-

Overcomplicated sentences, always trying to justify everything they do or think...

Urd calling Hagal Hagal-sama, even if on a meeting, is totally OOC. Hagal going out of her way to say "enough" when only 2 comments were made about a cake also seemed out of place...ok, you want to pass on the image that she is not fitting for the job, but this is too much of an "incompetent" seal on her forehead. You portray her as an adult Skuld of some sort...an insecure brat, who happened to be an adult.

 

This is what stops me from enjoying this fic as much as i would want to tbh... 

Sorry for the flames, this has potential, but don't think you're quite using it,

 

 

Demons in AMG are indeed polite and proper (for the most part at least), yet that means little when it comes to their goals. One fine example of this, is Thrymr, who's actually awfully polite and respectful for such a gruff looking demoness, and yet she can try to punch you in the face a few seconds after having a nice chat with you. High ranking demons in particular have little reason to throw jabs at each other, unless they seriously want to pick a fight with each other. Otherwise, it's much more likely to remain pleasant and instead try to stab each other in the back. Only if that fails do they need to get nasty. 

Urd's way of addressing Hagall is part of demonic protocol. You don't call the Daimakaicho (regardless of who possesses that title) by name, and in such a casual way in the middle of a meeting, especially in the throne room as well. Urd may be more fitting to take Hagall's position, but she's no royalty, and she has to stick to the rules, at least as far as protocol goes. Whether she likes it or not is a totally different matter. Just don't expect her to refer to her like that even when she's in Hagall's office, that's only for official functions. 

Now, Hagall's overreaction wasn't necessarily unjustified. She has more than enough reasons to be uncomfortable by the whole situation, since none of her direct subordinates seems to want her in that position. Even more, her previous choice of a deputy turned out to be a total failure, and she has more than enough reasons to be weary of Urd, too. 

Still, I think that there were some moments here and there (especially in previous chapters) where certain demons did act in less than proper manner, and even in this one, Urd seems to understand how the demonic world works when she gives those instructions to Lind. Personally speaking, if there was any major OOC moment for her here, then it was that request. Of course, this is demon Urd talking, rather than her goddess counterpart, so it's still fair game, I suppose. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Urd    52
Urd
1 hour ago, vanagandr said:

You're welcome KM! :laugh:

 

Demons in AMG are indeed polite and proper (for the most part at least), yet that means little when it comes to their goals. One fine example of this, is Thrymr, who's actually awfully polite and respectful for such a gruff looking demoness, and yet she can try to punch you in the face a few seconds after having a nice chat with you. High ranking demons in particular have little reason to throw jabs at each other, unless they seriously want to pick a fight with each other. Otherwise, it's much more likely to remain pleasant and instead try to stab each other in the back. Only if that fails do they need to get nasty. 

Urd's way of addressing Hagall is part of demonic protocol. You don't call the Daimakaicho (regardless of who possesses that title) by name, and in such a casual way in the middle of a meeting, especially in the throne room as well. Urd may be more fitting to take Hagall's position, but she's no royalty, and she has to stick to the rules, at least as far as protocol goes. Whether she likes it or not is a totally different matter. Just don't expect her to refer to her like that even when she's in Hagall's office, that's only for official functions. 

I don't agree. While the manga couldn't use improper terms due to the target audience, you could always see the veiled intentions around them. Especially Hild. But you don't have the luxury to have a panel to portray your chars facial expressions/body language/etc. You can only use your words.

So when i have to look ahead of the text to see who is talking to find out who said X sentence, i think something failed. You could replace some demons speechs part there with Belldandy's name and i would fall for it.

Also, again, i don't think Urd would refer to the Damakaicho as Whoever-sama in any circusntance. She's just too of a proud/rebellious character to be a lamb like that. Hence the OOC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vanagandr    209
vanagandr
16 minutes ago, Urd said:

I don't agree. While the manga couldn't use improper terms due to the target audience, you could always see the veiled intentions around them. Especially Hild. But you don't have the luxury to have a panel to portray your chars facial expressions/body language/etc. You can only use your words.

So when i have to look ahead of the text to see who is talking to find out who said X sentence, i think something failed. You could replace some demons speechs part there with Belldandy's name and i would fall for it.

Also, again, i don't think Urd would refer to the Damakaicho as Whoever-sama in any circusntance. She's just too of a proud/rebellious character to be a lamb like that. Hence the OOC.

It's not really a matter of target audience, given that AMG was officially classified as a seinen manga, meaning that it's targeting young adults, or at the very least older teens. I just think that Mr Fujishima never wanted to portray demons in such a way. And to a degree I too follow that example, at least as long as the demons in question are in an amicable mood. In the previous chapter for instance there were a couple of examples where their dialogues certainly wouldn't be taken for Belldandy's, and the next one will be an even more worse case. 

To say that Urd is a lamb... well, I disagree. She's been far less than cooperative during the time she had no idea what was going on in regards to Hild's term, and if there is one thing that Urd can swallow her pride for, then it's family. Though undeniably proud, Urd never puts herself above her closest relatives, with her sisters being a prime example, and while we can argue about her stance towards her mother, it's obvious that she loves her. Not that she's willingly going to admit it, but serving under Hagall could help her find a way around that law, then Urd might make the concession to address her according to protocol.

Also, acting like a spoiled demoness won't impress anyone, too. Remember that becoming the Daimakaicho's deputy is merely one step towards her real goal, not the actual goal itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keiichi Morisato    423
Keiichi Morisato

It's no doubt trying to figure out who the target audience for the series is, considering the fact that Oh My Goddess has been the recipient of many awards from parents, teacher and library groups. Since Fujishima-san knew who he was trying to appeal to with the manga, there was only so much he could do without alienating parents who bought manga for their children. I seem to recall that making demons appear less evil isn't confined to Ah! My Goddess. I've seen this in such anime as Howl's Moving Castle, Spirited Away and other such similar anime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vanagandr    209
vanagandr

Actually... I used to have similar thoughts, but as of late, I've changed my mind. There are two main reasons for AMG's avoidance to push the rating of the series. 

First is the duration of the series itself. Plainly put, AMG lasted for 26 years, and back when it all started, it was the late 80's. While manga and anime weren't exactly kiddly friendly even back back then, they tended to be far less willing to push things like violence and fanservice to such extremes that can be found in contemporary series. Even shonen manga tend to be considerably more 'mature' than their old school counterparts. 

Secondly, Mr Fujishima loves to invoke certain tropes, yet throw his own spin to them. In other words, even if he uses a certain theme, he never implements it in the most straightforward, overused and... expected manner. If you check the entire series, you can find such examples in most of the important arcs, and even certain characters and species followed this rule. Demons weren't evil in AMG, yet gods weren't benign for the same reason. Keiichi even pointed it out, during the semi playful fight between Hild and Ansuz. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keiichi Morisato    423
Keiichi Morisato

Tell me about it. In the first chapter of the manga series, Keiichi is seen smoking a cigarette but that Fujishima-san stepped away from that obvious character flaw. Plus, starting with the second chapter, which is Belldandy's true first appearance in the series, it's obvious that the portrayal of their kindergarten-style romance seemed to be aimed at bringing more younger fans, teenagers, into picking up on the manga series and why the two never seemed to get to the kissing stage. I've talked about this at length, about how this series to be fashioned after the Doris Day Show and Bewitched, both shows that broadcast on American television during the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's, when the most broadcasters could get away with was a couple holding hands or a married couple kissing each other on the cheek. Back then, it was also taboo among television broadcasters to show a married couple sleeping in the same bed. This was why you always saw such shows as I Love Lucy, Gilligan's Island, The Honeymooners, I Dream of Jeannie and other similar shows with the married couple sleeping in separate beds. This was mainly due to the broadcast censors, who rarely let anything besides hand-holding be broadcast on television.

This has been an area of confusion among fans of the anime and manga series, who grew frustrated because Keiichi and Belldandy's relationship never seemed to evolve or mature beyond hand-holding and I suspect that the introduction of Urd was a way of trying to test those waters. I suppose that someone must have complained which might explain the introduction of Skuld as a plot device to prevent Keiichi from getting too friendly with Belldandy. The manga series actually debuted in September 1988 and it was published bi-monthly in Kodansha's monthly Afternoon magazine. My guess is that when Fujishima-s artwork started to improve, Kodansha decided to start promoting the manga more often in their magazine, which is why it started to get published monthly. I'm thinking that the manga series took a year or two of this type of publication before it was promoted to a monthly status. Back then, Fujishima-san's artwork was very rough but eventually, you can see his style of drawing manga evolve over time. Dark Horse Comics would begin publishing the manga in 1994.

Note: If anyone is wondering why I refer to anime producers and manga creators with the 'san' title, it's because it's offered as a sign of respect. When a friend to the community saw I wasn't doing that, she asked I started posting that way because it's shown as respecting the Japanese. While I don't use the title when using their full name, I do employ that technique when I just use their last name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vanagandr    209
vanagandr

Realistically speaking, I doubt that the changes in the early manga was to attract a younger audience. If that was the case, then the very setting of the series (following the life of an already grown up man, versus a teenager) was a gaping flaw, even bigger than his smoking habit. It's just that originally Mr Fujishima didn't have a solid idea of what exactly his characters were like, and he fine tuned their personality as he went by. Keiichi's smoking habit was likely part of a biker bloke stereotype, but then again, he probably didn't want to follow that, along with some of the other traits he picked his his main character. After all, he was far less of nice guy, and just a lucky guy who also tended to be sarcastic and far more selfish than his later portrayal. 

And considering that in such stories the 'endgame' is when the main couple enters in a relationship, Belldandy's naivety was probably meant to keep them from getting close enough to start dating. Now, there were more than enough instances early on when Keiichi attempted to get closer to her, despite that, but if this kept on like that, Keiichi would've ended up looking like a creep who wanted to take advantage of a woman he wished to live with him. You can see where this is going...

That's partially why Urd was introduced, and her initial role as the 'matchmaker' was intended to backfire in the sense that she overdid it so hard, that she hindered any progress between the main couple. But then again, her original portrayal was quite oversexualized as well (to the point where she was originally walked around without panties, as evident by her dress) and eventually ended up being toned down (note the sudden addition of leggings in her overall attire). 

Skuld was another means of biding time for the author to keep Keiichi and Belldandy's relationship to a kindergarten level without bumping up the rating, although Peorth's introduction went back to the point where Urd was added to the story, but with a difference. Keiichi, no matter what, never fell for Peorth's charms, unlike being tricked like that by Urd. Although in the anime, the whole trick was due to a medicine that Keiichi's manga counterpart never took. 

Overall, I think that this had more to do with the way Mr Fujishima wanted to portray his characters and keep the story going for as long as possible (especially after his popularity skyrocketed thanks to the unexpected success of the manga), and Kodansha pushed him even harder to keep making new chapters. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keiichi Morisato    423
Keiichi Morisato

Whatever the reasons, Fujishima-san did give us a wonderful "coming-of-age" story. But, part of me keeps wondering if Fujishima-san wasn't writing about himself (as Keiichi). But, I think that manga, in this day and age, has become too politically correct and afraid to challenge manga fans or maybe they're worried that the government might get too offended with the content of their manga. That so-called Anti-Anime and Manga bIll that became law. Fujishima-san, I think, wanted to cater to a specific audience with his various manga titles. You're Under Arrest, Ah! My Goddess, Paradise Residence, eX-Driver (anime character designer), Sakura Wars (anime character designer), Toppu GP ... these all seem to cater to a certain demographic and I think Fujishima-san recognizes the demographic that he's creating manga for. This might also owe itself to the mind-set that he wants to create manga that would be anime-friendly to fans of all ages.

In this time, anime studios and manga publishers created properties for a specific purpose, licensing to anime distributors and manga publishers of other countries since anime and manga is a major industry for Japan. It's a major source of income. One of the most recent properties, Attack on Titan has become a goldmine for Kodansha, a giant sleeper hit that has even spawned a live-action two film production based on the manga. Licensing is just big business for Japan and that they no longer consider anime and manga in Japan a factor for publishing, although I suspect that's still important to their primary goal for their industry. They just factor in the licensing aspect of it as they've done recently.

Fujishima-san, I suspect, realizes that which is why he may be targeting a certain demographic of fans. This goes back to what I think about the appearance of demons and devils in anime and manga. With the popularity of The Walking Dead, I think that Attack on Titan might be manga publisher's way of jumping into this new genre of manga. Both of these, The Walking Dead and Attack on Titan have been wildly successful for AMC and for Kodansha and I think that producers of such content might be trying to push the boundaries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HotelKatz    46
HotelKatz

The chapter was good.

 

I found Megumi being slightly enthralled with Ansuz's headwings amusing, as well as Megumi's talk with Skuld good for a laugh.

 

As for the rest, I enjoyed it as well, but it felt like a cross between putting a puzzle together and going down an unknown road. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you had Mara make various complaints like "This shouldn't happen' or 'Things were supposed to be different'

Mostly because Mara strikes me as someone slow to accept change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vanagandr    209
vanagandr
10 hours ago, HotelKatz said:

The chapter was good.

 

I found Megumi being slightly enthralled with Ansuz's headwings amusing, as well as Megumi's talk with Skuld good for a laugh.

 

As for the rest, I enjoyed it as well, but it felt like a cross between putting a puzzle together and going down an unknown road. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you had Mara make various complaints like "This shouldn't happen' or 'Things were supposed to be different'

Mostly because Mara strikes me as someone slow to accept change.

Thanks Katz! I wanted to deal with Megumi, before I moved on with the story, and having Ansuz there was a great opportunity for that scene. 

The rest is indeed a bit of a puzzle right now, and you'll see that there will be some unexpected developments coming up. 

Now, Mara is definitely going to have some issues adjusting to what's taking place, but that's something I'll have to deal with in the next chapters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Board Life Status


Board startup date: December 12, 2004 13:15:32
×