Community Message: We're currently in the middle of our donation drive. For those willing to send a donation, we ask that you use the feature in the sidebar to send a donation. For those who send a donation, a donation badge will be featured in your profile next to every message you post. members can dismiss this message by clicking on the 'x' in the upper-right corner. Donations are used for hosting fees, license renewal for the forum software and domain name renewal.

Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Keiichi Morisato

Grenfell Towers, London, Major Apartment Fire

Recommended Posts

Sugoi    47
Sugoi
21 hours ago, Keiichi Morisato said:

While I'm not sure if politicians are protected from lawsuits in London,...

Parliamentary immunity is apparently granted members of parliament against civil actions but not from criminal prosecution according to Wikipedia.

I feel sorry for the victims not only because of this whole tragedy but it will definitely take years for them to get "appropriate" compensation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keiichi Morisato    422
Keiichi Morisato

When it comes to Wikipedia, I trust that site as much as I trust that it rains cats and dogs. Especially when it can be edited by anyone and everyone. It's why I simply rely on a standard Google search and ignore the Wikipedia results. :blum:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Utti Jaeger    9
Utti Jaeger
Posted (edited)

Keiichi I have a similar philosophy when looking for facts. I typically use Wikipedia as a launching pad to find answers. still feel bad for everyone involved in the story.

 

Edited by Utti Jaeger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keiichi Morisato    422
Keiichi Morisato

Tell me about. I feel the same way about IMDB. I don't trust any online resource that allows unfettered editing by any user. While I do use Wikipedia as a general resource tool, I do my own research by using the information I find on Wikipedia. If I can't find such information, then I don't use Wikipedia. I just don't find it to be a reliable source of information and I can't tell you how many errors I have found on various Wikipedia pages. Even their articles on various anime and manga titles I've found to be misleading and inaccurate. Wikipedia's big mistake was in allowing their pages to be edited by anyone and that I believe their editors should be pre-approved by the Wikipedia Administrators.

Far as the politicians in the council who are responsible for this disaster, it's just sad that they cannot be held civilly liable for those deaths but I think that this latest debacle might end up changing the minds of lawmakers. But, even so, the council should have been conducting their own oversight over the renovations. Taking the line that "we're going to trust the contractors and sub-contractors" is truly not how you want to run things. I've seen how such arrangements like that can backfire on you. Here, there are only certain circumstances where a politician is immune from civil liabilities and there are limits to such protections. With law enforcement, they are immune from civil lawsuits but there are restrictions on what type of lawsuits and under what circumstances they are immune from. For instance, an officer in performance of his or her duty, provided they aren't exceeding the duties of their status as a police officer, cannot be sued.

This is commonly referred to as 'Qualified Immunity". This type of defense is there to protect public officials, including law enforcement officers, from the often frivolous lawsuits that flow from their necessary official actions. However, there is a limit to when this can be invoked from a public official, mostly from police officers, who try to claim it in every circumstance. The way it works is that unless lawsuit allegations involve a claimed violation of clearly established constitutional rights, the defendant pleading qualified immunity is entitled to dismissal before the commencement of discovery. The courts have often stripped away an officer's qualified immunity when they have violated someone's constitutional rights or wrongly arrested an innocent person. This can involve anything from wrongful arrests, violating someone's constitutional or civil rights or by abusing their authority as a police officer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sugoi    47
Sugoi
12 hours ago, Keiichi Morisato said:

When it comes to Wikipedia, I trust that site as much as I trust that it rains cats and dogs. Especially when it can be edited by anyone and everyone. It's why I simply rely on a standard Google search and ignore the Wikipedia results. :blum:

I was just too lazy to check more reliable sources. As I have assumed that most western, democratic countries have some sort mechanism regulation-wise in place to protect their political officials against prosecutions unless that immunity is revoked by a dedicated government committee.

Anyways, I would be very baffled if the UK didn't have that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keiichi Morisato    422
Keiichi Morisato

Fortunately for me, I'm a frequent visitor to http://www.techdirt.com, a blog-type website that often reports on police misconduct, copyright trolling and other matters. The whole qualified immunity has been in the news of late, which is why I knew what I was posting about. :grin: The situation here in the states is the out of control police officers and their lobbyists trying to get a law passed, called the "Blue Lives Matter" law, which they were able to bamboozle and scam a bunch of lawmakers in two states in making crimes against police officers a hate crime. Don't laugh, it's already happened in two states, and it was fairly recent. Turning police officers into a protected class is as ridiculous as it sounds, since there were already enhancement penalties in place for anyone committing a violent crime against a police officer. New York used to have such a law that turned such crimes into a capitol punishment-related offense. But with states abolishing capitol punishment, there hasn't been much in the way of that.

It's ridiculous that police officers have the audacity to make the claim that they are a minority and deserve a special protected class. The fact is, such laws are going to force criminals to commit actual violent crimes against police officers since it's likely they will receive the sentencing enhancement for such crimes anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sugoi    47
Sugoi

Well, the police in the US is definitely a matter of different scale...

I mean over here people frequently make jokes like "US police officers first shoot and maybe then ask questions"  or  "If you're not shot by gangsters you're likely to be shot by the police" ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keiichi Morisato    422
Keiichi Morisato

Fortunately, for me, I live in an area where the police officers are actually quite honest. There was one incident where a mentally ill homeless one was wielding a gun and several police officers were called to take him down, with everyone else screaming about how the officers subdued him. When you're mentally ill, and you're waving a knife in the air, you kind of deserve what you get from the presence of the police.

Everytime I see some fool with a video-camera or cellphone camera, provoking police officers into responding just so they can get a lawsuit and some free money out of it, it kind of makes me angry. I take the old axiom, if someone doesn't want me to record them, then I'll comply, because it's the decent thing to do ... it's called "common courtesy". When a police officer requests you to go on about your business, do so. Because the worst they can do is detain you for several hours in a holding cell. It's just not something you want to do, and you may end up regretting it. :getlost:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

Board Life Status


Board startup date: December 12, 2004 13:15:32
×