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Gun control

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Sugoi    47
Sugoi
5 hours ago, ehbowen said:

Which of those elements...fertilizer, Diesel, airplanes...do you propose to outlaw, and how do you propose to do it?

*sighs* I'll just copy and paste what I already wrote earlier (with some modifications) as it is applicable to this question as well...

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Umm yes, but the most important difference and point is that those things are -absolutely necessary- in our modern society. Otherwise modern society -could not exist-! Precisely for that reason the risk those things may pose is acceptable.

Guns in the hands of the general public, however, are -not- an elemental necessity in our modern society at all! That's why the significant risk they pose to public security is not acceptable.
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Besides, it's not necessary to outlaw something entirely. Instead it has to be made sure that "dangerous goods" are regulated and controlled appropriately depending on the potential threat they may pose.

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ehbowen    6
ehbowen
41 minutes ago, Sugoi said:

*sighs* I'll just copy and paste what I already wrote earlier (with some modifications) as it is applicable to this question as well...

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Umm yes, but the most important difference and point is that those things are -absolutely necessary- in our modern society. Otherwise modern society -could not exist-! Precisely for that reason the risk those things may pose is acceptable.

Guns in the hands of the general public, however, are -not- an elemental necessity in our modern society at all! That's why the significant risk they pose to public security is not acceptable.
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Besides, it's not necessary to outlaw something entirely. Instead it has to be made sure that "dangerous goods" are regulated and controlled appropriately depending on the potential threat they may pose.

But a gun IS "absolutely necessary" if you are a good guy and there is a bad guy within sight of you who also has a gun.

You'll NEVER be able to get all of the guns out of the hands of the bad guys. But if enough of the good guys have them, the damage the bad guys can do is limited.

Remember the movie theater shooting? The bad guy, with a high powered rifle, shot himself as soon as someone else in the crowd pulled a gun. The good guy didn't even have to fire it...all he had to do was PULL it.

 

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Keiichi Morisato    423
Keiichi Morisato

ehbowen, I think you might be confusing it just a bit. While the second amendment does grant Americans a constitutional right to own a gun, it's not an entitlement and its not a requirement for every person to own a gun. More time than not, people with guns generally don't know how to use them responsibly. But, the way I look at it, it has nothing to do with whether you're a good guy or bad guy and that's not excuse for defending gun rights. For instance, while I believe that everyone should be able to own a weapon for home defense, I don't see it as a necessity.

Some time ago, and I think I've talked about this on the forums before, after my dad had passed away, this woman who considered herself a friend of my dad (but not according to my dad), she decided that she wanted the guns that her husband had given my dad before her husband passed away (this was because he didn't trust his wife with the guns) decided that she had an entitled right to get those guns back. Well, my brother wasn't about to let that happen so he sold them off. Well, anyways, she decided to get several of her friends together and jump my brother, eight against one. Back then, before my mom passed away, she came running into the house and told me in a panic what was happening. I grabbed this solid wood baseball bat we keep in the house for defense and I ran outside.

My brother was on the ground and I ran between my brother and her gang of thugs, letting my brother get to his feet (he was knocked on the ground by these hooligans). She kept trying to tell me it was none of my business and to go away. I reminded her, with both hands grasped on the baseball bat, extended outward, that I warned her about bringing her drama down to our home and that she needed to go back home. She was obviously hocked up on alcohol and drugs and I simply wasn't playing around. I was about to lay out a significant portion of her group unconscious and send a lot of people to the hospital. I don't normally get involved in physical altercations but I told her not to ever come down to our home ever again and that I didn't care what the reason was. When you attack a member of my family, all bets are off and I was going to give everyone a free trip to the hospital.

People don't realize that any object can be used as a weapon and you don't need a gun.

The reason I won't ever pick up a gun is because my dad asked me if I wanted to shoot his friend's gun. he had taken me to the gun range with his friend when I was about eight years old. It was a 357 Magnum. To make a long story short, I pulled the trigger and if my dad and his friend hadn't been standing behind me and grabbed the barrel of the gun as it came swinging back toward my forehead, it would have knocked my clean out. I just know how dangerous guns can be. Personally, I'm glad that gun laws are heavily enforced in our country but just because you have a license doesn;t mean that you won't go out and use it in an act of violence.

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Sugoi    47
Sugoi
On 8.10.2017 at 6:08 PM, ehbowen said:

But a gun IS "absolutely necessary" if you are a good guy and there is a bad guy within sight of you who also has a gun.

As Keiichi wrote it's just the respective individual like you who deems it necessary to own a gun. As I mentioned before I have been living in countries where guns are either entirely banned for the public or there are very strict gun control laws / restrictions in place. And it's safe in those countries.

 

On 8.10.2017 at 6:08 PM, ehbowen said:

Remember the movie theater shooting? The bad guy, with a high powered rifle, shot himself as soon as someone else in the crowd pulled a gun. The good guy didn't even have to fire it...all he had to do was PULL it.

What makes you think that all criminals react the same way?

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Keiichi Morisato    423
Keiichi Morisato

@Sugoi, exactly. The one thing that gun control fanatics don't understand is that gun control is just a knee jerk reaction to a single incident of gun violence and its those same gun control fanatics who actually think that it works and that such laws will impact everyone. The simple truth is that everyone uses gun control as a means of getting their 15 minutes of fame, attempt to create viral videos that will be reported on in the news and that the criminal element will be affected by it.

Notice how gun control isn't talked about until after there is an incident of gun violence and it's always the same. Gun control fanatics follow a very carefully orchestrated plan of attack: incident of gun violence happens, gun control freaks clamor for stronger gun control laws and several weeks later everything dies back down to normal.

Here in the United States, our gun laws work exactly as they are intended to work. When you go to a gun dealer, they are required by federal law to run a background check and to ensure you have a license to purchase or own a gun. If you don't have a license, they help you apply for the license. Background checks are conducted at the local, state and federal level. If there are no red flags in your background check, then the gun dealer will sell you the gun. There is a process. Gun dealers also will not sell you a gun if they suspect you have bad intentions. There are warning indicators, or red flags, that gun dealers look for.

Regarding the Law Vegas incident, I watched a video on youtube (see embedded video below and watch the whole thing), the gun dealer did sell guns to the suspect but that gun licenses and registrations aren't required in the state. From what the owner said, no red flags alarmed the owner so he just sold the gun to the suspect.

Unfortunately, there is no universal requirement for background checks or registrations for gun owners.

What I should also mention is that gun control laws will not stop someone who has criminal intent from purchasing or using guns without a license, even if it's required.

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Imaginos1892    22
Imaginos1892

Or, they can go buy a gun from Pedro The Pusher for 200 bucks. No background checks, no red flags, no waiting periods. Pedro, he don't obey the 'gun control laws', or a whole lot of other laws either. He'll sell 'em a fully automatic Chinese AK-47 with a couple of 95 round drum magazines if they got the cash.

You can't stop Pedro from selling drugs, what leads you to believe that you can stop him from selling guns?

We've tried prohibition, over and over, and it's always the same. Alcohol, drugs, gambling, prostitution, guns…it fails every time, and only enriches the criminals.

Prohibition never works, but there is no shortage of dimwits willing to delude themselves that it does. Even today there are idiots that would bring back the Volstead Act if they could.

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Keiichi Morisato    423
Keiichi Morisato

Imaginos, don't be like that. Criminals have always been able to buy any kind of gun off the streets in the United States. That's just the way it is. What's so intriguing is that a majority of the gun violence has been gun violence perpetrated by individuals who had legally purchased a gun.

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Keiichi Morisato    423
Keiichi Morisato

This time around, we have another deadly shooting but this time around, instead of the usual frootloops calling for gun control, lawmakers are now calling for mandatory backdoors to cellphone decryption. What struck me as odd was the fact that Apple keeps reaching out to the FBI and asking if they need help in breaking into iPhones but each time, the FBI declines the offer. The FBI wants to beat these tech companies over the head with mandatory laws, which they can assault these companies with and make it mandatory instead of voluntary.

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