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Nena Camadera

North Korea

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Nena Camadera    61
Nena Camadera

Okay, so I don't often like talking about this kind of stuff since my whole job is shit like this, but I feel like this might be a bit important.

North Korea has just come out and accused the US of declaring war.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41391978

The might not seem like much, especially to folks back in the States, but it has the potential to get bad.  Tensions between the US and Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea (DPRK) has been growing exponentially over the past several months.  Most of it has been over DPRK's growing nuclear program and rhetoric for combined US-Republic of Korea (ROK) exercises, but it's also been the DPRK's missile tests as well.  The past couple months alone North Korea has launched test missiles that have overshot Japan-where I live-and has invited ridicule from not only NATO partners but their own allies, Russia and China (a rarety) as well. 

This latest event could be seen as continued rhetoric from the DPRK, however, if nK decides to follow up with its underveiled threats/excuses to try and shoot down a US aircraft-especially one not flying in their airspace, then things might take a turn for the worse for those of us here in the Pacific.  More importantly, it provides nK the excuse of playing a victim card and justifying any attacks they think they can get away with.  Because of that and the results of such an act, I might vanish from this forum, as all of a sudden not only sK but Guam and Japan-the closes locations of other US bases in the Pacific, may come under threat of attack.

I'm going to see if I can make regular posts to this following any additional information that comes out from news agencies such as BBC or the NHK as time progresses, and for anyone who's curious about the tensions leading up to them, I might be able to answer some questions as well. 

This post isn't meant to scare anyone, but rather to keep people informed and bring awareness to the ongoing tensions in the Pacific, as well as provide possible reasoning as to why, at any given point, I might go off-line some time in the future.

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vanagandr    203
vanagandr

What can I say? I hate discussing about politics or geopolitics, but I've been following this topic for a while, and it's baffling how nK's allies have allowed them to go this out of control. At this point, some of their antics are so mind boggling that it's beyond excuses. Nuclear weapons are not toys to be trifled with, and for the world to survive the Cold War, only for a pariah regime to use them in such manner is simply unforgivable. 

Seriously... anyone with a iota of intelligence wouldn't act like that. 

I just hope that the worse won't come to worst, but if it does, I can only wish you luck, Nena. That's the most anyone can really offer in such a situation, really.

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winedrinkingcritic    20
winedrinkingcritic

And you people wonder why I turned Ah My Goddess into a Nuclear Apocalypse movie...???

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grayfox123    136
grayfox123

Personally speaking, I don't think that the DPRK Is going to attack the US. I strongly doubt that they have the capability to mount a nuclear bomb on a warhead despite all the reports....and I doubt the Chinese would let them.Just another of their periodic shakedowns for cash.

Having said that, the Korean Peninsula still remains a hotspot....so keeping my fingers crossed.Still, a nuclear war might lead to the end of the Kims....which is something they(and the Chinese)  don't want.

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Nena Camadera    61
Nena Camadera
Just now, grayfox123 said:

Personally speaking, I don't think that the DPRK Is going to attack the US. I strongly doubt that they have the capability to mount a nuclear bomb on a warhead despite all the reports....and I doubt the Chinese would let them.Just another of their periodic shakedowns for cash.

Having said that, the Korean Peninsula still remains a hotspot....so keeping my fingers crossed.Still, a nuclear war might lead to the end of the Kims....which is something they(and the Chinese)  don't want.

Very perspective observation, Fox, and I agree with you, to an extent.  The DPRK isn't going to attack the US because in many ways they aren't ready yet-their ballistic missile/nuclear program has sped up only very recently over the past two or three years, and this only under Kim Jong-Un.  Before him, Kim Jong-Il only had maybe a bare handful of nuclear tests and ballistic missile launches while still in power.  His focus was elseware-perhaps getting around sanctions to acquire food or basic technology, but with a little research it wasn't hard to see that ballistic missiles and a nuclear program were far-off goals, in his mind.  Kim Jong-Un, however, has in the past two or three years alone made it very clear that he intends to develop these two programs, and regardless of how many failures they've had so far, they've made an outstanding amount of progress.  KJU isn't a fool.  He's an educated man who lived abroad for a good many years before coming home to roost, and regardless of how easy it is to write off his rhetoric and failures, he's still progressing faster than we've ever seen with any of the previous Kims.

What we're seeing right now is rhetoric: if the DPRK paint themselves as victims, then they have the excuse of self-defense to continue developing their weapons programs.  It justifies their actions, regardless of the truth in the matter (none of it's true-otherwise this conversation would not be happening and I'd be long gone by now).  As for China... well, there's only so much they can do.  For all his intellect, Kim Jong-Un burned some major bridges with China since coming into power, and at this point China is at the point of being the frustrated owner with the dog that keeps pissing on the couch or the exhausted parent who's just about given up trying to rein in their wild child.  That's also where it becomes more political: China doesn't want to give the appearance of siding with the US, so unless North Korea does something really bad that wrecks China's image, what North Korea does goes.  They have stated, however, that they are dedicated to keeping North Korea non-nuclear...but that, like the sanctions the US/UN continually hounds North Korea with, is talk, and talk is cheap.  It won't stop them from North Korea from continuing missile tests like the two that have already overflown Japan (which is no bueno if something on the missile breaks), nor continuing their nuclear tests as they have already shown they can do.

 

11 hours ago, vanagandr said:

it's baffling how nK's allies have allowed them to go this out of control. At this point, some of their antics are so mind boggling that it's beyond excuses. Nuclear weapons are not toys to be trifled with, and for the world to survive the Cold War, only for a pariah regime to use them in such manner is simply unforgivable. 

Vanguard, thank you for contributing despite Geo-political topics being subjects you tend to avoid.  My main reason for this is that I'm in some ways smack dab in the middle of all this and have been riled up on more than one occasion by North Korea's antics, and from another perspective to see the views and opinions of those people from other countries or people who are back CONUS-side, as usually I only have the opinions and bias of my organization to go by. 

The problem with nuclear weapons isn't that the countries seeking them view them as toys. No country sees them as toys. They see them as exactly what they are: enablers, weapons, and a means of deterrence from countries deemed hostile by past experience.  That's why Iran seeks them and that's the same reason North Korea seeks them: Nobody wants to go to war with a country holding nuclear weapons, as the devistation that could be wrecked has been horrific on a historic level.  It's kind of like the old saying goes: A good offense is a good defense, and when you're a hermit country like the DPRK, that looks really appealing.  Now whether or not they understand the full responsibility that comes with that power, and if they ruler is mature enough to understand the consequences of using such a thing, is another matter entirely.  From my perspective, that's where North Korea (and Iran) fail: they want the power, but don't understand the responsibility that comes with it nor, in some cases, do I believe that they care.

 

Thank you all for the discussion so far.  Again, part of this is keeping folks around here aware of what's happening on my end (just in case...), but I also want to use this as a means to spark intellectual discussion while also taking a look at things from a different perspective.  It's also reassuring to what you've said so far-at times, it's easy to fall into a hole and spiral about like a cuckoo with a broken wing, and it helps hearing things from folks not quite so close to the madness in the Pacific.

 

For anyone else who might have discovered this by chance, I welcome and encourage you to participate, even if the subject of tensions in the Pacific is a relatively unknown topic for you. 

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Urd    47
Urd
2 hours ago, Nena Camadera said:

  Now whether or not they understand the full responsibility that comes with that power, and if they ruler is mature enough to understand the consequences of using such a thing, is another matter entirely.  From my perspective, that's where North Korea (and Iran) fail: they want the power, but don't understand the responsibility that comes with it nor, in some cases, do I believe that they care.

 

Thank you all for the discussion so far.  Again, part of this is keeping folks around here aware of what's happening on my end (just in case...), but I also want to use this as a means to spark intellectual discussion while also taking a look at things from a different perspective.  It's also reassuring to what you've said so far-at times, it's easy to fall into a hole and spiral about like a cuckoo with a broken wing, and it helps hearing things from folks not quite so close to the madness in the Pacific.

 

For anyone else who might have discovered this by chance, I welcome and encourage you to participate, even if the subject of tensions in the Pacific is a relatively unknown topic for you. 

 

I think everybody in the world has been following this...this...stupid nonsense for the past weeks/months...

All i can think about is "who is going to be the first stupid idiot to do something reckless and start the war? Who is going to shoot something they shouldn't and then, there's no turning back?"

 

I completely agree that NK does not seem to understand the responsability that comes with power, but if i have to be honest with you, nor does Trump. Regardless of KJU acting to the world as a spoiled brat who thinks NK is the center of the world and everybody wants to take them down, Trump doesn't seem to be much better. Some of his positions, not only regarding the NK subject since he came into power....pppffttt.

His declarations at the ONU were .... c'mon! A president of a country with nuclear power saying the things he did, in the place he did, and in the way he did? What is he expecting? KJU to roll over in fear? They're provocking each other like a pair of kids and there's a high chance someone is going to pay the price. Which is a very douche movement from Trump's part imho, because he knows NK can't target the US...yet. He knows his country is safe.

 

But Japan, per example?

China?

Other nearby countries?

I have no doubts that KJU is stupid enough to throw a bomb is one of those. Even if he means he'll be destroyed after....

 

As a matter of fact, i have been wanting to ask you if these matters have not started to affect your daily rotine by now, but then backed down 'cause you don't seem to like to talk about your work.

But then i was like, "if she works pretty much where the stuff is happening and can still write fiction, maybe things are not THAT bad...yet"

 

Oh well...guess again.

 

I have no lost love for NK...none. I watched a 2part documentary a few weeks ago about it and it's insane the things that happen there. They teach kids, i mean, 2, 3 years old kids that the US is the boogeyman and that they should all die because they want to kill Nk's...They teach this in school! The kids learn to hate foreigners, especially americans, since such a young age! There's no Internet, no TV, no nothing that isn't provided by the regime, so these ppl...these...sheep (i'm sorry, ti know they're just poor ppl, but i can't think of them differently), actually think the world is against them!

It's insane... 

 

I keep saying my generation is still going to see a major war. Just waiting to see if it's going to start because of NK/US, or because of the Islamic State/Immigration crises in Europe... (which is a VERY real thing here)

 

 

Edited by Urd

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ceroxon    2
ceroxon

I am French, my English skills are average. Let's see if I understand.
------------------

Once again, the world is in danger.
A crazy dictator threatens the planet.
He conspires in his presidential palace in Pyongyang, in the heart of a far country.
He has under him a whole army, he has a very sophisticated weaponry.
Only one man can stop him.

Tada tada tada tada.

My name is bond. James .... uh .... no. My name is Trump, Donald Trump.

And the worst part is that it's not a movie. It is really HE who must save the world.

Did I understand the situation?
---------------------------------------
More seriously. This story with Korea has been going on for 60 years and it has been getting worse and now they are going to have to become dangerous on a global scale.

I was against the war in Iraq under George Bush because it stank manipulation and lies. This time, however, I am afraid that it is necessary. In any case it was necessary to finish one day.

 

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winedrinkingcritic    20
winedrinkingcritic

Donald Trump isn't up to the task of saving the world. It's now up to James Franco, Seth Rogen, and Lizzy Caplan to do the dirty deed.

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winedrinkingcritic    20
winedrinkingcritic

Can we just ignore the impending destruction of Planet Earth for just one moment and admire how gifted these North Korean children are?

 

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Nena Camadera    61
Nena Camadera

Urd, I agree with you in that the US is not without its own share of problems (and believe me, we have quiet a few) I'm going to reserve my opinion of my President due to the fact that as a servicemember, I am required to hold faith in my government and the leadership appointed within it per the US Armed Forces Code of Conduct.  That being said, we also have a man like General Mattis as our acting Security of Defense, which is the one thing I really hold faith in due to the fact that General Mattis has a plethora of experience on his back First as a Marine and then as a Commander for US Central Command-a large MAJCOM that houses DoD personnel of all their respective branches in order to focus on current issues in the Middle East.  He's a highly qualified individual that can help guide and (hopefully) mentor a man with no military service such as Trump down the right path with our forces. 

Now, to keep from straying too much off topic...

7 hours ago, Urd said:

As a matter of fact, i have been wanting to ask you if these matters have not started to affect your daily rotine by now, but then backed down 'cause you don't seem to like to talk about your work.

But then i was like, "if she works pretty much where the stuff is happening and can still write fiction, maybe things are not THAT bad...yet"

Feel free to drop me a question at any -it never hurts to ask, and I'll let you know if I'm uncomfortable with a particular topic.  The current issues haven't affected our daily routine over here, however we are in a heightened state of awareness.  There is a greater focus on what North Korea says or does, and the leadership here is asking a lot more questions about North Korea's activity.  There are other indications as well: We have evacuation files that we are now required to maintain for our families in case we need to send them home no-notice. We've been issues chemical protection gear and are drilling with it regularly. We are being issued IPE this week (I don't know why, we aren't being threatened with bullets and this won't protect us from cruise missiles), and we exercise more to insure we can better react "just in case".

7 hours ago, Urd said:

But Japan, per example?

China?

Other nearby countries?

I have no doubts that KJU is stupid enough to throw a bomb is one of those. Even if he means he'll be destroyed after....

North Korea, historically, has never really held an interest with Japan.  Don't get me wrong-they dislike the Japanese because of the atrocities committed against them in WW2 for the same reason that the South Koreans dislike the Japanese and the Chinese dislike the Japanese.  The Koreans on both sides (this back when they were still united) had their women taken and used as 'pleasure women' and the Chinese were victimized by the infamous 'Rape of Nanking'(amongst varous other war crimes). That being said, neither Japan or China has ever been the DPRK's main interest.  Japan offers them nothing because it is a small cluster of islands located past South Korea and China has always been a long-time ally. Even with the eroding relations between China and the DPRK, the connections between the two countries are deep enough that North Korea attacking China would be a fit of madness so strong that everyone across the world would be baffled by it.  That being said... China can more easily defend itself when compared to North Korea's main target, which is the reunification of the pennisula and absorbing South Korea back under the overarching branch of "DPRK".  That's where their main focus is.  More than anything else, to include rhetoric against the US, South Korea is their main focus.  That's also one of the main reasons that the US has bases in South Korea, and why we get so involved whenever North Korea get's a little crazy.  However simply lobbing ballstic missiles into South Korea on a whim-or even Guam, as we've been threatened, or Japan, as we've seen overflown, would be a foolish act on North Korea's part: Their government is dedicated to protecting the Kim Regime, and Kim Jong-Un isn't going to start making a serious move without the technology to back it up, thus the developmental missile program and nuclear program he's pushing so hard.  A working program equates to defense through offense, which makes it harder to approach from a military standpoint without some serious sacrifice on the part of the advancing forces.

7 hours ago, Urd said:

I have no lost love for NK...none. I watched a 2part documentary a few weeks ago about it and it's insane the things that happen there. They teach kids, i mean, 2, 3 years old kids that the US is the boogeyman and that they should all die because they want to kill Nk's...They teach this in school! The kids learn to hate foreigners, especially americans, since such a young age! There's no Internet, no TV, no nothing that isn't provided by the regime, so these ppl...these...sheep (i'm sorry, ti know they're just poor ppl, but i can't think of them differently), actually think the world is against them!

I've seen that same documentary.  Somewhere on the internet, there's even a book you can find that speaks on what North Korea is like on the inside, ranging from how they indoctrinate their people into believing that their leader is a literal god who can read their minds to the Western Demon that is the US straight down into their belief that, despite their lack of food and slow advancement in technology, they believe themselves to be superior in comparison to their ROK counterparts. That's not all, either. North Korea is responsible for a plethora of human rights violations, and what that documentary doesn't show are the large amount of concentration camps in country (I can't say for certain, but I think the American who died of a brain injury after returning from North Korea got thrown into one...) where people deemed disloyal to the Kim Regime are sentenced with three generations of family.  (Don't go to North Korea, guys!!) Recreational drug use is huge in-country, and oftentimes encouraged because as a marketed medical treatment to put people in a better move (and forget they're starvation), and the most loyal families in general are those who get to stay more in the capital of Pyong Yang, where KJU lives and where it's easier to travel for work and to acquire food.

 

8 hours ago, Urd said:

I keep saying my generation is still going to see a major war. Just waiting to see if it's going to start because of NK/US, or because of the Islamic State/Immigration crises in Europe... (which is a VERY real thing here)

I agree with you on some points, however that's only because, in my eyes, I've already seen a major war in support of Operations Enduring Fredom and Operation Iraqi Freedom.  And I also stand by my own personal statement with what I say next:

Fuck the Islamic State and everything they stand for. 

But that's another story for a different time.

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Urd    47
Urd

I understand where you're coming from Nena. As an active serviceman, ofc i'm not expecting you to manifest an opinion about your Supreme Commander on a public forum. 

 

But anyway, what NK has been doing now is not anything new. Kim dynasty has always ruled by oppression and not-so-veiled threats. The difference is that now

A) KJU decided to speed the nuclear program and that

B) the US started to reply in a confrontational manner.

 

There are not many win-win situations here. If they don't drop their sheninigans with sanctions alone we either have:

A) an internal coup and the Regime gets torn from inside (unlikely...the ppl just don't know what is going on around them...),

B) KJU is going to keep testing, keep improving, keep going until the threat he poses is real

C) a war breaks out and he's stopped before that

 

I don't see that many options besides these ones tbh...

 

And when i mentioned that i believe my generation (heck, our generation) is still going to see a major war, i don't mean a regional war. I mean a World War.

 

As for the rest...yea...fuck IS and all they stand for...but that really is a whole different story altogether...

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Sugoi    47
Sugoi

Thank you so much for starting a topic of this kind! I have been missing those.

 

15 hours ago, Urd said:

I think everybody in the world has been following this...this...stupid nonsense for the past weeks/months...

At least in the west and I guess in the countries threatened by NK. However, in China for example hardly anyone's talking about it (according to what I heard)...

 

17 hours ago, Nena Camadera said:

The problem with nuclear weapons isn't that the countries seeking them view them as toys. No country sees them as toys. They see them as exactly what they are: enablers, weapons, and a means of deterrence from countries deemed hostile by past experience.  That's why Iran seeks them and that's the same reason North Korea seeks them: Nobody wants to go to war with a country holding nuclear weapons, as the devistation that could be wrecked has been horrific on a historic level.  It's kind of like the old saying goes: A good offense is a good defense, and when you're a hermit country like the DPRK, that looks really appealing.

The NK regime obviously considers the nuclear route its life insurance. At this point they don't have much to lose anyways.

 

7 hours ago, Nena Camadera said:

Now whether or not they understand the full responsibility that comes with that power, and if they ruler is mature enough to understand the consequences of using such a thing, is another matter entirely.  From my perspective, that's where North Korea (and Iran) fail: they want the power, but don't understand the responsibility that comes with it nor, in some cases, do I believe that they care.

Well, one of the major problems is that in some countries you have manbabies in power...

 

7 hours ago, Nena Camadera said:

And I also stand by my own personal statement with what I say next:

F... the Islamic State and everything they stand for. 

I wish all extremists whether religious or political would simply vanish into thin air... That would definitely make this world a better place.

 

 

 

 

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